A deeper look into Poland’s U.S. visa problems

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A deeper look into Poland’s U.S. visa problemsThe Winona Daily News ^ | October 20, 2007 | Roy Nasstrom

Posted on 10/20/2007 3:02:59 PM PDT by lizol

A deeper look into Poland’s visa problems

By Roy Nasstrom | Guest view

Stewart Shaw’s mention of the visa requirement for ordinary Polish visitors to the United States deserves attention. Although the visa issue has not received much attention in most of the American media, Congress and the White House have taken it very seriously.

It does seem unfair to exclude Poland from the visa waiver program. This program allows citizens to enter the United States for a visit with only a passport and without subjection to sometimes humiliating questions that must be answered when applying for a visa. All the nations of western Europe benefit from the program. Nevertheless, with the exception of Slovenia, no former Communist nation of central and eastern Europe is in the program.

Nominally, inclusion requires “governmental stability” and competent treatment of immigration and emigration policies. Rejection from the program is automatic if more than a limited number of visa applicants in the past have been rejected for various reasons, including arrests, serious illness or activities to be judged by consular officials potentially harmful to the United States.

The Bush administration has been trying to get the rule modified to allow nations such as Poland to secure waivers, but Congress has not agreed. A couple of months ago, legislation reduced restrictions somewhat. But the legislation included a clause presented by Democratic Sen. Dianne Feinstein that rejected a country’s entry to the program if more than 10 percent of its visa applicants had been rejected. Poland’s 25 to 35 percent rejection rate prevents it from getting into the program, although several other countries could be accepted under the rule.

Why should Poland have such a high rate of rejection?

In the early 2000s, the latest period for which I have data, Estonia, Hungary and the Czech Republic had higher crime rates (low by western European standards) than Poland’s. But their visa rejection rate is low enough to make their prospects for entry into the Visa Waiver Program far better than Poland’s. Definitions of crime and statistical techniques vary considerably among countries, making precise comparisons difficult, but the figures do arouse curiosity.

Some observers have suggested that, unlike other countries, Poland simply has not actively discouraged visa applications from people likely to be refused. There is no doubt, however, that Poland does have a fairly high unemployment rate by International Labor Organization data 19 percent three years ago, significant even for Eastern Europe.

But how relevant to American well-being is the restriction to Poland and a few other countries in central and eastern Europe? Feinstein has said that our immigration policy was “the soft underbelly of national security,” and many in Congress agree with her.

Some want to end waivers for all countries. Moreover, an economic issue is important to many legislators. They fear that once in, some visa-holding immigrants would get jobs and stay illegally. Immigrants are a panic-button issue in many places.

Those opposed to restrictions have argued simply that it is not fair to exclude some countries of the European Union, but not others. They point also to the number of Americans with Polish relatives. They have noted that most of eastern Europe is no more likely in the case of Poland, less likely to be a conduit for Islamic terrorists than western European countries, especially those whose immigrants from former colonies cannot be limited.

In terms of illegal employment, supporters of visa exclusion have noted that Poland has become far better off economically than old statistics data indicate, thus lessening workers’ wishes to search for jobs in the United States.

Perhaps most important, supporters of Poland’s inclusion view the country as a vital component of U.S. relations with Europe, especially since the acceptance of former Communist countries into the European Union. They argue that Poland’s influence in eastern and central Europe, always large, is growing, and that its support of the United States is vital to American interests.

Although the issue of waivers is highly political, so far it is not a partisan issue.

Geographic location, concepts of terrorism and composition of constituencies and financial supporters play a more important role in determining legislators’ attitudes than political affiliation. Democrats and Republicans stand on both sides of the issue. Illinois Reps. John Shimkus, a Republican, and Rahm Emanuel, a Democrat, have jointly authored legislation to end the restriction in the current law.

TOPICS:Foreign Affairs; News/Current EventsKEYWORDS:poland; visas

To: lizol

Sure, a lot of Poles have left their country to find jobs. Does that make them undesirable?

Dianne Feinstein supports Mexican illegals coming here for cheap jobs, but evidently opposes Poles emmigrating to America, although the crime rate in Poland is surely much lower than in Mexico, and the education is far better.

Who would we rather have, a hard-working, well educated Pole who wants to come to America and find a future, or a Mexican criminal who has 3 DUI offenses on his record, collects welfare, and illegally votes for the Democrats?

Don’t ask.

To: lizol

The reason why the congress is blocking this is not because the eastern block counties high crime rate, the Poles are conservatives. They are hard workers, they come here not with thier hand out but with thier work clothes on ready to go to work! Dems need people who are dependent upon them. Illegals in this country which the dems are falling over each other to coddle and encourage have raped, and murdererd American citizens, and do we here anything form them on this? NO! Pathetic, spineless, hypocrites! Get your voting shoes on America lets clean house! Lets rid ourselves of this cancer called liberalism and all its tumors!

To: lizol

Does anyone know what these "humiliating questions" might be?

Not that I'm opposed to Polish visitors and/or immigrants. I just can't think of any humiliating questions, just humiliating answers, and that's not our fault.

To: lizol

However,Poland must realize that illegal immigration is a serious problem in the US.As I think I told you recently,lizol,I spent a few days in Ireland last June and was surprised by how many workers from Poland and other new EU member states I saw at the hotels we stayed at.And as I told you they were all very polite,friendly,efficient and spoke English very well.

My understanding is that Poles are allowed to live and work,with few if any restrictions,in the UK as well as Ireland. I would think that that fact would minimize the chances that a Pole might come to the US and overstay his or her visa.If my assumptions and conclusions are correct I see no reason why Poland shouldn't be included in a system which places minimum restrictions on short visits for her citizens.

To: Cicero; lizol

I'd take the Polish person every time.

To: magslinger

I find this pretty humiliating.

The French, or Brits, or Germans don’t have to do that. Even if their name is - let’s say - Muhammad Atta.

To: Gay State Conservative

You know - it’s a kind of a vicious circle. The Poles can’t be included into the visa waiver program, because of the high number, of visa applications being rejected - because the U.S. consulate clerks think, that many applicants want to stay in USA illegally.Which is actually pointless, as they could go to Ireland or UK, or Sweden, or somewhere else within the EU - to work legally, for equally decent money, closer to Poland and without being afraid of deportation etc.

To: lizol

Seems some friends of both Boxer and Feinstein were ripped off by Polish Gypsies.And frankly, these particular Gypsies are a crime wave in themselves.Of course our government won’t/can’t hammer just them, so everyone pays for it.

To: lizol

Good grief! Poland is our ally.

Look at all the H1b visas, a good number go to Pakistan, they’d be more likely “the soft underbelly of national security,” not Poland. This is a shame.

It makes no sense and we need to start hollering about it!

To: Cicero

The Poles are more capable and more willing to assimilate. The amigos just want to subject us to their third world cesspool culture while they rip off all they can.

To: lizol

I can think of at least one American prosecutor and several American politicians who might be embarrassed by some of those questions. Can't name any judges off the top of my head but there are some.I'm sure that they can figure out that the only purpose of those questions is to give a legal crowbar to remove them from the country if it turns out they lied.

I find this pretty humiliating.

I'd be proud to answer no to those questions.

The French, or Brits, or Germans don’t have to do that. Even if their name is - let’s say - Muhammad Atta.

I thought I made it clear that it was the characterizing the questions as humiliating that I objected to, not dropping the requirement for the Polish.

To: lizol

As to Poland, my experiences with Polish workers and Polish people in general has been exceedingly positive. In the great scheme of things, we could do worse than to end up with a few of them over-staying their visas.

To: lizol

Why are dims oppposed to freeing up visas for Poles that would likely result in many more Poles becoming illegal immigrants in the U.S., while they do all they can to encourage Mexicans to come?

Mexicans will vote Dim, Poles probably won’t.

To: lizol

Why not pushing the European immigration policy away from the member nations to Brussels? If a European visa i.e. would be necessary for Americans who want to enter Europe, the US administration should think about giving all EU members access to the visa-waiver program in return for maintaining their visa-free access to Europe.

It is easy to ignore some countries in eastern Europe, but it would be a disaster for any US administration if their compatriots have to pay -let's say- a 100$ fee and get a 25% chance to be rejected if they want to enter Europe in general.

I hope that I am not zotted because of this orgy of anti-Americanism. ;)

To: lizol

I agree with the poster who said that the folks who are having the problem with visa (from Poland but could be those from the countries listed at the link above) are hardworking. Congress doesn't like that idea; they only want sheep who want congress to give them benefits paid for by US taxpayers. No thinking, hard workers allowed.

USA sold out Eastern Europe once before. Still the same old story.

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson

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A deeper look into Poland’s U.S. visa problemsThe Winona Daily News ^ | October 20, 2007 | Roy Nasstrom

Posted on 10/20/2007 3:02:59 PM PDT by lizol

A deeper look into Poland’s visa problems

By Roy Nasstrom | Guest view

Stewart Shaw’s mention of the visa requirement for ordinary Polish visitors to the United States deserves attention. Although the visa issue has not received much attention in most of the American media, Congress and the White House have taken it very seriously.

It does seem unfair to exclude Poland from the visa waiver program. This program allows citizens to enter the United States for a visit with only a passport and without subjection to sometimes humiliating questions that must be answered when applying for a visa. All the nations of western Europe benefit from the program. Nevertheless, with the exception of Slovenia, no former Communist nation of central and eastern Europe is in the program.

Nominally, inclusion requires “governmental stability” and competent treatment of immigration and emigration policies. Rejection from the program is automatic if more than a limited number of visa applicants in the past have been rejected for various reasons, including arrests, serious illness or activities to be judged by consular officials potentially harmful to the United States.

The Bush administration has been trying to get the rule modified to allow nations such as Poland to secure waivers, but Congress has not agreed. A couple of months ago, legislation reduced restrictions somewhat. But the legislation included a clause presented by Democratic Sen. Dianne Feinstein that rejected a country’s entry to the program if more than 10 percent of its visa applicants had been rejected. Poland’s 25 to 35 percent rejection rate prevents it from getting into the program, although several other countries could be accepted under the rule.

Why should Poland have such a high rate of rejection?

In the early 2000s, the latest period for which I have data, Estonia, Hungary and the Czech Republic had higher crime rates (low by western European standards) than Poland’s. But their visa rejection rate is low enough to make their prospects for entry into the Visa Waiver Program far better than Poland’s. Definitions of crime and statistical techniques vary considerably among countries, making precise comparisons difficult, but the figures do arouse curiosity.

Some observers have suggested that, unlike other countries, Poland simply has not actively discouraged visa applications from people likely to be refused. There is no doubt, however, that Poland does have a fairly high unemployment rate by International Labor Organization data 19 percent three years ago, significant even for Eastern Europe.

But how relevant to American well-being is the restriction to Poland and a few other countries in central and eastern Europe? Feinstein has said that our immigration policy was “the soft underbelly of national security,” and many in Congress agree with her.

Some want to end waivers for all countries. Moreover, an economic issue is important to many legislators. They fear that once in, some visa-holding immigrants would get jobs and stay illegally. Immigrants are a panic-button issue in many places.

Those opposed to restrictions have argued simply that it is not fair to exclude some countries of the European Union, but not others. They point also to the number of Americans with Polish relatives. They have noted that most of eastern Europe is no more likely in the case of Poland, less likely to be a conduit for Islamic terrorists than western European countries, especially those whose immigrants from former colonies cannot be limited.

In terms of illegal employment, supporters of visa exclusion have noted that Poland has become far better off economically than old statistics data indicate, thus lessening workers’ wishes to search for jobs in the United States.

Perhaps most important, supporters of Poland’s inclusion view the country as a vital component of U.S. relations with Europe, especially since the acceptance of former Communist countries into the European Union. They argue that Poland’s influence in eastern and central Europe, always large, is growing, and that its support of the United States is vital to American interests.

Although the issue of waivers is highly political, so far it is not a partisan issue.

Geographic location, concepts of terrorism and composition of constituencies and financial supporters play a more important role in determining legislators’ attitudes than political affiliation. Democrats and Republicans stand on both sides of the issue. Illinois Reps. John Shimkus, a Republican, and Rahm Emanuel, a Democrat, have jointly authored legislation to end the restriction in the current law.

TOPICS:Foreign Affairs; News/Current EventsKEYWORDS:poland; visas

posted on

by

To: lizol

Sure, a lot of Poles have left their country to find jobs. Does that make them undesirable?

Dianne Feinstein supports Mexican illegals coming here for cheap jobs, but evidently opposes Poles emmigrating to America, although the crime rate in Poland is surely much lower than in Mexico, and the education is far better.

Who would we rather have, a hard-working, well educated Pole who wants to come to America and find a future, or a Mexican criminal who has 3 DUI offenses on his record, collects welfare, and illegally votes for the Democrats?

Don’t ask.

posted on

by

(Marcus Tullius)

To: lizol

The reason why the congress is blocking this is not because the eastern block counties high crime rate, the Poles are conservatives. They are hard workers, they come here not with thier hand out but with thier work clothes on ready to go to work! Dems need people who are dependent upon them. Illegals in this country which the dems are falling over each other to coddle and encourage have raped, and murdererd American citizens, and do we here anything form them on this? NO! Pathetic, spineless, hypocrites! Get your voting shoes on America lets clean house! Lets rid ourselves of this cancer called liberalism and all its tumors!

posted on

by

(Id rather be hunting with dick than driving with ted)

To: lizol

Does anyone know what these "humiliating questions" might be?

Not that I'm opposed to Polish visitors and/or immigrants. I just can't think of any humiliating questions, just humiliating answers, and that's not our fault.

posted on

by

(I will not submit.)

To: lizol

Poland is a very strong and valuable ally to the US and,as such,we must demonstrate gratitude to her people and her government.Among the many ways we could do that is to minimize the barriers that Poles must overcome to enter the US for short visits.

However,Poland must realize that illegal immigration is a serious problem in the US.As I think I told you recently,lizol,I spent a few days in Ireland last June and was surprised by how many workers from Poland and other new EU member states I saw at the hotels we stayed at.And as I told you they were all very polite,friendly,efficient and spoke English very well.

My understanding is that Poles are allowed to live and work,with few if any restrictions,in the UK as well as Ireland. I would think that that fact would minimize the chances that a Pole might come to the US and overstay his or her visa.If my assumptions and conclusions are correct I see no reason why Poland shouldn't be included in a system which places minimum restrictions on short visits for her citizens.

posted on

by

(If martyrdom is so cool,why does Osama Obama go to such great lengths to avoid it?)

To: Cicero; lizol

I'd take the Polish person every time.

posted on

by

(If martyrdom is so cool,why does Osama Obama go to such great lengths to avoid it?)

To: magslinger

You know - for example when someone, who is a judge, or a prosecutor in Poland, and wants to visit USA, he must answer questions like: “have you ever been involved in criminal activity?”, or “have you ever smuggled drugs?” etc., etc.

I find this pretty humiliating.

The French, or Brits, or Germans don’t have to do that. Even if their name is - let’s say - Muhammad Atta.

posted on

by

(Liberal - a man with his mind open ... at both ends)

To: Gay State Conservative

I’d say nothing more. Exactly my point of view.

You know - it’s a kind of a vicious circle. The Poles can’t be included into the visa waiver program, because of the high number, of visa applications being rejected - because the U.S. consulate clerks think, that many applicants want to stay in USA illegally.Which is actually pointless, as they could go to Ireland or UK, or Sweden, or somewhere else within the EU - to work legally, for equally decent money, closer to Poland and without being afraid of deportation etc.

posted on

by

(Liberal - a man with his mind open ... at both ends)

To: lizol

During my previous career, someone asked to to find out why Poles were being given a hard time as to VISA’s etc.

Seems some friends of both Boxer and Feinstein were ripped off by Polish Gypsies.And frankly, these particular Gypsies are a crime wave in themselves.Of course our government won’t/can’t hammer just them, so everyone pays for it.

posted on

by

( Abortion stops a beating heart.)

To: lizol

Good grief! Poland is our ally.

Look at all the H1b visas, a good number go to Pakistan, they’d be more likely “the soft underbelly of national security,” not Poland. This is a shame.

It makes no sense and we need to start hollering about it!

posted on

by

(Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul. WWPD (what would Patton do))

To: Cicero

The Poles are more capable and more willing to assimilate. The amigos just want to subject us to their third world cesspool culture while they rip off all they can.

posted on

by

(Lamentations 5:2)

To: lizol

I can think of at least one American prosecutor and several American politicians who might be embarrassed by some of those questions. Can't name any judges off the top of my head but there are some.I'm sure that they can figure out that the only purpose of those questions is to give a legal crowbar to remove them from the country if it turns out they lied.

I find this pretty humiliating.

I'd be proud to answer no to those questions.

The French, or Brits, or Germans don’t have to do that. Even if their name is - let’s say - Muhammad Atta.

I thought I made it clear that it was the characterizing the questions as humiliating that I objected to, not dropping the requirement for the Polish.

posted on

by

(I will not submit.)

To: lizol

I only recently became aware of this issue. My cousins in the Czech Republic are pretty upset that they are subject to lengthy bureaucratic procedures if they want to visit the US, while other Western European countries' citizens are not. They point out that the Czech Republic has been a strong ally of the US, sent soldiers to Iraq, and is now being asked to station a missile defense radar base on its territory. They are offended that they are treated as second class visitors to our nation. I tend to agree.

As to Poland, my experiences with Polish workers and Polish people in general has been exceedingly positive. In the great scheme of things, we could do worse than to end up with a few of them over-staying their visas.

To: lizol

Why are dims oppposed to freeing up visas for Poles that would likely result in many more Poles becoming illegal immigrants in the U.S., while they do all they can to encourage Mexicans to come?

Mexicans will vote Dim, Poles probably won’t.

posted on

by

(Islamic tolerance is practiced by killing you last.)

To: lizol

This is something where the EU could help.

Why not pushing the European immigration policy away from the member nations to Brussels? If a European visa i.e. would be necessary for Americans who want to enter Europe, the US administration should think about giving all EU members access to the visa-waiver program in return for maintaining their visa-free access to Europe.

It is easy to ignore some countries in eastern Europe, but it would be a disaster for any US administration if their compatriots have to pay -let's say- a 100$ fee and get a 25% chance to be rejected if they want to enter Europe in general.

I hope that I am not zotted because of this orgy of anti-Americanism. ;)

To: lizol

Poland is not the only country that has this problem with the US. Check out this link:

I agree with the poster who said that the folks who are having the problem with visa (from Poland but could be those from the countries listed at the link above) are hardworking. Congress doesn't like that idea; they only want sheep who want congress to give them benefits paid for by US taxpayers. No thinking, hard workers allowed.

USA sold out Eastern Europe once before. Still the same old story.

posted on

by

(Eastern European hard workers not wanted by US congress)

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson