Airbus A320 crashed in Southern France - Page 51 - PPRuNe Forums

26th Mar 2015, 05:15

Join Date: Jul 2013

Location: Windy City

Posts: 4

Per info from the Gendarmarie, the flight data recorder was spotted yesterday and an attempt to recover it will be made today.

Both NYT and AFP are reporting the cockpit door storyline.

Last edited by Castlehard; 26th Mar 2015 at 05:35. Reason: Additional info

26th Mar 2015, 05:22

#1002 (permalink)

Join Date: Jun 2008

Location: Outer space

Age: 44

Posts: 3

Quote:

This is getting stupid. 800 people die at a time in a south East Asian ferry accident (Bangladesh about once a year) and there is never as much made of the tragedy as a plane crash. WTF is the fascination? We lose 50,000 people a year in the USA to car crashes. I don't see requirements for a second or third driver or automation. This is just getting more ridiculous by the day.

I guess the fascination comes from several sources.

Lots of people usually die in plane crashes, which means lots of stories about mourning relatives to tell. Lots of stories about "how could it happen", lots of "spectacular" pictures of total destruction to show.

Imho, the entire news business on this planet needs a cold reboot, seriously. And that includes Twitter, Facebook and whatever else is involved.

The really sad thing is that the news business follows normal market rules which basically means, customers apparently *want* to hear and see all this, otherwise there wouldn't be any reason to spend billions for producing it.

26th Mar 2015, 05:25

#1003 (permalink)

Join Date: Feb 2001

Location: Planet Earth (sometimes)

Posts: 2,692

Good Morning/Bonjour.

It's not that long ago (yesterday PM in fact) that according to some here the NYT was claiming the FDR had been found (some posted links here), although the authorities on the spot were making clear it had not been found. Guess what- it hadn't been found so quite why anyone is giving them any credibility on any other issue surrounding the accident is beyond me.....

Across the Atlantic the (UK's) Guardian reporter's p. poor knowledge of French seems to have led to various incorrect claims about the contents of FDR circulating in the UK media even after the BEA news conference ( to paraphrase - the BEA head's comments that the CVR would allow them to hear/analyse "noises, voices, alarms" was translated as: "we've heard noises, voices, alarms")

Quote:

Til we hear if from an official form France's Bureau of Investigation of the content on the Voice recorder I would recommend treating all other findings as absolute lies.

Pretty much agree.

Last edited by wiggy; 26th Mar 2015 at 06:05.

26th Mar 2015, 05:27

#1004 (permalink)

Join Date: May 2013

Location: South of the Zambezi

Age: 72

Posts: 9

Excuse a mere PPL (albeit since 1966) intervening, but this media report concerns me:

"German schoolchildren on board the ill-fated Germanwings flight had texted friends to say they ‘couldn’t wait to come home’ just moments before the aircraft crashed in the French Alps."

Is the use of mobile 'phones dangerous, or is it not? If it is, then why is the "switch off" rule not rigorously enforced? (as I have noted on several flights). If it is not dangerous, then why have the rule?

26th Mar 2015, 05:29

#1005 (permalink)

Join Date: Jun 2010

Location: Germany

Posts: 34

A320 cockpit locking system

Looks like the flight crew can override the emergency keypad opening mechanism. Nothing wrong with that except when you have a terrorist or piloting nut job behind that bullet-proof door.This cockpit security concept essentially introduced a single point of failure vulnerability in the plane.

26th Mar 2015, 05:29

#1006 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Australia

Posts: 3

Get out of our Cockpit

I normally sit and watch but this is getting seriously bad. Everyone wants to be the 'Man'.I have 48 years driving aircraft including A340 and B747-400 and 24000+ hours.

For me if you post an opinion, mislead or copy comments and put them into the media you must be held accountable. And no, not good enough to say "not me sir I was reporting from a source". You must be prepared to put your credibility, proffessional career and personal assets to the test. That is whats required of most International Pilots. So put up or shut up.

26th Mar 2015, 05:30

#1007 (permalink)

Join Date: Jun 2013

Location: UAE

Posts: 49

Agree with firesock: no unqualified person in a pilot's seat (in most outfits).

26th Mar 2015, 05:33

#1008 (permalink)

Join Date: May 2010

Location: Usually on top

Posts: 28

That was evident from the beginning of this flawed approach. I always opposed the locked door policy. It in the meantime has cost more lives than 9/11 has.

26th Mar 2015, 05:33

#1009 (permalink)

Join Date: Jun 2013

Location: UAE

Posts: 49

Chanting, Towerdog, chanting :-)

26th Mar 2015, 05:34

#1010 (permalink)

Join Date: Nov 2002

Location: Wilmington

Age: 38

Posts: 119

Quote:

I normally sit and watch but this is getting seriously bad. Everyone wants to be the 'Man'.

Thank God the Man has actually arrived. This guy presumably flew an MU-2 and LIVED. Silence and Respect are all that are required, thank you.

26th Mar 2015, 05:35

#1011 (permalink)

Join Date: Dec 2000

Location: Asia Pacific

Posts: 1,225

Quote:

Being one of the few who followed the thread from start, among the thousand posts so far there is ONE by Capt Kremin which deserves attention and closer scrutiny:

Airbus A320 crashed in Southern France

If the analysis presented is correct (and I'm not qualified to judge) it strongly implies that the A/C was under pilot control during the descent.

Yes, a very good analysis by Capt Kremin .. thoroughly concur with that suggestion!

26th Mar 2015, 05:39

#1012 (permalink)

Join Date: Jun 2010

Location: Nottinghamshire

Posts: 14

Quote:

I think it was mentioned a few pages back about the lack of phone signal. Signal is only, sometimes, only available at around 2 to 5 thousand feet.

In the terrain area. The chart top terrain is around 6000ft I believe was mentioned. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, Not sure if there are any cell masts on the alps? I'm sure there is a website somewhere that may prove me wrong. Just thinking theoretically with the remote of the area.

26th Mar 2015, 05:47

#1013 (permalink)

Join Date: Jul 2000

Location: Dubai - sand land.

Age: 46

Posts: 2,131

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldManRiver

Is the use of mobile 'phones dangerous, or is it not?

No it is not dangerous. Attested to by the fact that many airlines have onboard telephony and wifi connectivity! The 'no phone' thing with some airlines is a hang up from the days when mobile phones were new and the effects on aircraft systems was unknown!

Heck - I even remember reaching V1 many years ago in a 340 when my phone started ringing loudly... I got a very pained look from the F/O (possibly becasue of my choice of ringtone) but the 'plane didn't drop out of the sky!!!

26th Mar 2015, 05:49

#1015 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2014

Location: Los Angles

Age: 45

Posts: 2

but...

Quote:

Isn't this forum called "Rumor" network?

26th Mar 2015, 05:51

#1016 (permalink)

Join Date: Apr 2014

Location: Brisbane, Australia

Age: 44

Posts: 4

Quote:

Isn't this forum called "Rumor" network?

That is as yet unconfirmed.

26th Mar 2015, 05:53

#1017 (permalink)

Join Date: Jul 2000

Location: Dubai - sand land.

Age: 46

Posts: 2,131

Quote:

Maybe its time to leave the door open again.......just saying

Agree fully...

26th Mar 2015, 05:54

#1018 (permalink)

Join Date: Aug 2005

Location: fairly close to the colonial capitol

Age: 46

Posts: 1,237

Quote:

In nil wind that would true, but the real world is not like that. As you descend (or climb) the head/tail wind component will change. That will change your IAS and if you have select a 'pitch for speed' mode, the pitch attitude (and thus the V/S) will change to maintain the selected speed.

I've never noticed the oscillations like that in my V/S in VNAV PATH after the descent stabilizes. While I have seen V/S variations in LVL CHG and VNAV SPD, they are generally trending either up OR down and not up AND down. Is this behavior peculiar to the Airbus managed descent? Oh, and I think you mean GS not IAS regarding winds aloft change through the layers. Thanks for the response.

Quote:

Yes there is. Not sure which but you're not sure of.

In an IAS/Mach Idle descent the VS and thus vertical path will vary with wind, temperature/density changes, vertical currents, IAS/Mach switchover and other factors. An Open Descent is always quite variable in terms of achieved profile.

Thanks BusTRE! So, as I understand this, Open Descent is another way of describing the Airbus Managed Descent - and if so, on a Boeing, the corollary would be VNAV SPD, not PATH.

Quote:

Have you ever heard of wind?

Yes, NoD, and either my wife or my nephew's dog broke some just now.

26th Mar 2015, 05:55

#1019 (permalink)

Join Date: Sep 2008

Location: Where it is comfortable...

Age: 51

Posts: 318

Quote:

"German schoolchildren on board the ill-fated Germanwings flight had texted friends to say they ‘couldn’t wait to come home’ just moments before the aircraft crashed in the French Alps."

With some knowledge of mobile phone systems, this is quite easy to explain. The messages were entered and sent at a time when there was no signal coverage, probably when already in the air. Yes, phones are SUPPOSED to be switched off, but surprise, surprise, I'm sure on any single flight a search would reveal a dozen left on in pockets and briefcases. Children are more prone to do this than adults, not intentionally but simple forgetfulness. Also phones double as cameras and music players these days, my daughters constantly fiddle with them.

Once the aircraft descended to an altitude where it was possible to pick up a signal (4000-6000ft above tower elevation) the phones automatically connected and sent the messages. Nothing sinister about it.

The area is not remote at all by global standards. France has a near 100% mobile coverage, including mountain regions, and there are several towns and villages in the vicinity. Mobile signal is probably only blocked in some small patches shielded by peaks and ridges.

26th Mar 2015, 05:55

#1020 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2009

Location: Surrey

Posts: 35

I thought one of the pilots radioed to ATC to say there was an emergency, but they never put out a Mayday,, and nothing else was heard afterwards?

If that's correct, and one of the pilots had gone to the loo, why would a suicidal pilot call out that there was an emergency?

Someone mentioned the seated pilot possibly having a heart attack,,but the chances of that happening at the precise time the other pilot left the cockpit seems unlikely,especially when they have frequent medicals.

If the pilot was a terrorist or suicidal, it's unlikely any doctor would see that as the pilot is not going to admit to feelings of madness, nor terrorism.

The banging frantically on the door could have been panic - the pilot outside would've known he/she couldn't break the door down. But if it's true it seems to suggest that the plane was descending in a controlled fashion. I'd imagine an engine failure would have made the plane totally unstable and everyone and everything would've been rolling around and falling over? Then again, had there been an engine failure the pilot would have opened the door to get help from the other pilot.

It's all weird.

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/558654-airbus-a320-crashed-southern-france-51.html#PhotoSwipe1427354509628