We Demand an Apology Network | P-SEC

May 27, 2015

In the summer of 1983, in the face of an economic recession and no jobs in Ontario, I joined the Summer Youth Employment Program at the naval reserve unit, HMCS Queen in Regina, my home town. After graduating at the top of my class, I was encouraged to apply for officer training upon my return to Toronto to complete my undergraduate degree. After a rigorous application I was accepted into the program.

While in officer training at Albert Head on the west coast in 1984, I was called to a meeting with a training officer that I did not request. Ostensibly it was to discuss my course of training, but the real reason I was called to the meeting was because of allegations of co-trainees that I was a lesbian. Unbeknownst to me there was an official policy prohibiting homosexuals in the military which also required that all members report any suspicions to their superiors. The policy lumped homosexuality, bestiality and pedophilia together as unacceptable behaviour for which, the system presumed, members could be blackmailed to reveal state secrets.

I talked my way out of that meeting and I was never aware of any formal investigation into my behavior. While at a 27-year reunion in 2007, I heard from some women with whom I trained that they had all been asked about me and they had also lied at risk of their careers to protect me. I served for six years, initially as a naval control of shipping officer; but, before I left the service I became one of the first 5 women in Canada to obtain a bridge-watching certification for minor war vessels. I also worked at Maritime Command in Halifax as the assistant editor of The Trident, an internal naval publication.

During my time in the service I new many sailors who were persecuted while in service or were dishonourably released. In 1989 after my promotion, I was due for re-investigation by CSIS as I had a ‘Secret” security designation. Rather than subjecting friends and family to possible interrogation about my life, I voluntarily resigned. This is why I strongly support the NDP motions for an apology and correction of service record.

Brenda Barnes

(Whitehorse)

(w) 867-667-4441

(h) 867-393-3018

brenda@yukonwitt.org

I joined the military in November 1977. I was told I was going to be an air frame technician. I completed basic training in St Jean, Quebec. After this, I went Chatham, New Brunswick for about 3 months OJT (on-the-job-training). I then went to Borden to take the basic trades training course to become an air frame technician. While in Borden, I met my first girlfriend. She was posted to Shelburne and I got posted back to Chatham, N.B. The first investigation happened in 1978 in Chatham N.B. I was allowed to remain in the service. My partner, with whom I was in a long-distance relationship, was dismissed for “homosexuality.” I do not have a clue why I was not released too. I believe my Major, Roger Paradis, stopped my release as he was very understanding and supportive.

The investigation was awful. For the first series of interrogations, I was taken to C.F.B. Halifax and I was met by two SIU officers. For at least 3 days, they interrogated me in an undisclosed place for hours at a time. Examples of the questions they asked me during these interrogations were: "Who is the man in the relationship? Do you like to masturbate in front of a mirror? Who takes the garbage out? Do you use a dildo? Do you hate men?” There were always two SIU officers. One had long hair, looked like a hippie, and was not very nice. The other guy was clean cut and well shaved, well dressed, and very nice. I guess now that I think of it, it was like the good cop, bad cop routine. I was 19 years old, and I was afraid of being in that room with them for hours. Then came the lie detector test. All they did was ask questions, and I answered with “yes” or “no.” I didn't believe in that machine, and never did find out the results.

I guess the first series of interrogations were not enough and they made me see a psychiatrist. I also had to travel to Halifax to see the psychiatrist. He asked me about my family life growing up, and if I thought that being raised by a single parent could attribute to my being a lesbian as my father had died when I was 3 months old. I told him that I couldn't see why not having a father would affect me. My sister was not gay, and was married with children. The investigation by the SIU also resumed. These interrogations and the meetings with the psychiatrist went on for months. I met with the SIU in the same place as before and repeatedly. I am not sure where it was because these sessions were always taking place at night time and I didn’t know Halifax that well. The same types of questions were asked of me, but this time, I had to write out my answers. At some point, they wanted me to write down who I knew, and who were gay. They badgered me for hours into the night until I gave them names. I gave them first names only. I never gave in to the constant request for second names. I no longer cared at that point. I guess I was getting used to their tactics.

On one visit to the psychiatrist, he told me that he saw nothing wrong with me, and that being a lesbian was not an illness, but he wasn't in charge, and that his decisions didn't carry much weight, but that I would have to see him for several months, keep my nose clean, and stay away from gay people if I wanted to remain in the military. I listened to him, as being in the military was my dream since I was a child, and I didn't want to lose my job. I stopped going to the mess hall, and never went to clubs. In the mornings, I did make a quick stop at the mess to grab my lunch box for my shift, and at night I stopped at the Canex for a snack to eat in my room in the barracks. On the weekends, I went to my mom's place as it was just 2 hours away. It always felt like I was being followed, and it was not a good feeling to think that someone was following me. My colleagues would always ask me why I wouldn't participate in activities with them. I guess they figured I was just too shy. One called me antisocial, and that really hurt.

While I was allowed to remain in the military through all this, I was stripped of my “top-secret” clearance. As a result, I had to leave 416 Squadron where I was working on military war planes. I was sent to C.F.B. Borden where I took the Supply Technician course because you only needed a security classification of “confidential” to do this type of military work. On my return to Chatham, I was sent to work at the MSE supply shop (military auto parts shop).

In 1979, I decided to move off base, and I shared an apartment with a friend. I also met someone and started dating. Just over a year later, another investigation started. We both were discharged from the military, but only after months of interrogations. I was so devastated. I can’t for the life of me remember where the investigation took place this time. I was just so numb, and the experience was worse than the first time. Everyone on base found out. It was not enough having the SIU follow me, but my Captain from work at the time, a guy by the last name of Donahue, made it his mission to make my life a living hell. Everywhere I went on base, Captain Donahue was there; at the canteen, the Gym, the baseball diamond… everywhere I went, he showed up! One day I asked him, “What is this all about? I turn around and there you are all the time.” He told me that I was a security risk, that I could not be left alone wandering about the base, and that he would not have the base compromised because of “YOU!” He went on to say that I was a threat to our country, he would make sure I got dismissed, and that he would not allow Captain Paradis to help me this time. Shortly after that, the anonymous phone calls started. They would shout nasty words and hang up. I also was sexually assaulted by a drunken corporal who said that he would show me what I was missing. When I reported it to my Sergeant at work, he told me it was a waste of time, and that no one would take it seriously. When I was walking to work, other soldiers would call me names as they drove by me. It was awful. I went to see Major Paradis and the Base commander, and they both said they would put an end to it, but it continued until the day I was released, which was sometime in the 1980’s. My partner followed soon after. I have to say that my Sergeant, Don Cormier, did everything to keep me in the military, but he fought a losing battle. Before the investigations began, he had even put my name forward recommending me for an advance promotion to corporal. I was so excited. But my Captain ripped it up in front of me saying I was not going to get it.

Before I left the military, they had a big party for me with a plaque and all, but I did not attend. I just couldn’t. Sgt. Cormier delivered the plaque to my home, and told me how sorry he was. When I cleared off base, the last thing Capt. Donahue told me was, “Don’t forget, when you apply for a job, there might just be a note on your file, and they will all know the kind a person you really are!”

My partner and I had to move away as we were harassed all of the time. We decided to move to Ottawa as it had a bilingual population. At the time, it made sense to us. I got a job with the Corps of Commissionaires, and then moved to a job with Canada Post. I retired after 30 years of service. However, during my employment with Canada Post, every time I was called into the office, I thought I was going to lose my job. My ex-partner is still working for the government. We went our separate ways after 25 years together, but we were blessed with a son who is now 27.

During the years that followed, I often tried to get an apology, but never knew how to go about getting one. I did speak to Svend Robinson in the early 1980s. I gave him a written statement that provided all the details about my dismissal. He used it to help the Michelle Douglas case. I also wrote to Michel Drapeau, and inquired on how to get an apology. His response was, “Never going to happen,” and that I would have to prove that being gay was the only reason I was dismissed. I had no clue on how to do that. I knew that was the only reason I was discharged.

All of this happened over 30 years ago, and not one day goes by that I don’t think about it. The only thing I ever wanted was to serve my country. And to be told that I was a threat to my country… well that stays with you for a long time. The countless investigations, they never go away in your mind. I still, to this day, have a hard time answering the phone: I always think that it will be an obscene call. I have a hard time when men are drunk because of the sexual assault by a drunken corporal. I have a hard time listening to the National Anthem without crying. Oddly enough, if I had the opportunity to serve again, I’d do it in a heartbeat!

Today, I still want an apology, and I want help on how to deal with my insecurities. I want “someone” to tell me that they are sorry, to acknowledge that I was never a threat, that I was a good soldier, and to acknowledge my service in a form of a medal which I will wear proudly when I stand every November 11 paying my respect to our lost heroes! I know medals are not just given randomly, but my God, myself and all others that suffered like we did deserve a medal in recognition of our service. If I was not dismissed for being gay, I’d still be there today!

In early 1970, I was called to the offices of the Military Police at CFB Halifax and told that enough evidence had been gathered to indicate that I was homosexual. In fact, based on questions asked of me, it became apparent that I had been under investigation and observation for about one year. I was then a 30 year old naval Lieutenant serving as the Operations Officer in a destroyer with what appeared to be prospects of a promising career in the Canadian Forces. In view of the then existing Administrative Order addressing “sexual perversions”, countering this accusation would have resulted in the immediate removal from my ship, the downgrading of my top secret security clearance and a difficult to explain temporary posting to an insignificant position pending further investigations. As I assessed my situation, I saw this as only postponing the inevitable and running the risk of a less-than-honourable discharge from the Forces. This led me to submitting a letter resigning my officer’s commission which was quickly processed and I was honourably released. I might add that throughout this ordeal and mental anguish I enjoyed the complete moral support of my ship’s Executive Officer, Commanding Officer (a future admiral) and the Squadron Commander. After some thirteen years with the Canadian Forces I had to seek a new career and begin a new life.

In view of what I described above, I fully support the long overdue redress initiatives outlined in Motions M-517 and M-521. If implemented, these would be the beginning of an honourable means of recognizing the devoted service of Forces personnel like me forced into a humiliating and unnecessary termination of their career.

Frank M. Létourneau

Halifax, Nova Scotia

Email: frankmletourneau@gmail.com

Phone: 902 429 2285

I joined the armed forces in 1983 at the age of 19. A year and a half later, after graduating as a medical assistant I was dishonorably discharged for homosexuality. The events leading up to my discharge consisted of many hours of interrogation, including a promise that, should I confess to my “sexual perversions”, they would keep me.

I was interrogated in a little house that I didn’t even know existed on the base. I was asked very personal questions like “who did you sleep with?” and “How often do you have sex”. I felt exhausted, scared and humiliated. At that moment I lost all sense of my self-worth and selfrespect. I left the interrogation with an uncertainty and fear that I had never experienced before. I was released from the interrogation and life in the army went on as usual. Months later, after I had been transferred to the National Defence Medical Center in Ottawa. I was summoned to the office of a psychologist for an evaluation to determine if I was normal or abnormal as per the investigation of my homosexuality. I did a couple of sessions that did not go very well. Again, I did not receive any news on my investigation for months.

I was offered a new contract of 3 Years as a communication officer with Top Secret code verification, and I accepted. I was scheduled to start my course in Kingston shortly. I was working as a pharmacist assistant the day I got the call to report to the office of the base Colonel. They asked “Do you know why you are here today?” I answered “No”. It was at this moment that I was informed that I had been dishonorably discharged for homosexuality. I had just signed a new contract? I was confused. It made no sense to me that I was being discharged for my sexual orientation!

This event changed my life, robbed me of my self-esteem, and distorted my value system. It took 15 years of intensive therapy, and the help of my family to finally find my place in society, and feel safe to be my authentic self in the workplace. I absolutely support the NDP motions.

As a result of what happened to me in the military, I have devoted the last 15 Years of my life to the demystification of homophobia in the workplace. I do this so that organisations and corporations are not allowed to discriminate against employees for their sexual orientation or gender identity. This education process encourages these organizations and corporations to create an inclusive workplace. Employees are measured by their skills and competences, not by their sexual identity. I strongly believe that authentic employees are more productive in their work. The Initiative, brought forth by the NDP, is an opportunity for the Federal Government of Canada to take responsibility for the violent acts of discrimination that I and so many others lived at the hands of the Canadian Armed Forces. This accountability is the first step in the process of recognition and support for people whose careers were destroyed.

Yours sincerely,

Martine Roy

(514) 514-246 x8411

martine.zuni@videotron.ca

By MCpl Simon Thwaites (retired sort of - I think I can claim that title after one is kicked out of the forces)

To most I was a soft spoken quiet military guy who keeps his business to himself. Imagine in the spring of 1986 being ordered to a meeting down town and finding out this was the home of the military’s Special Investigative unit (SIU). Upon arriving being hustled into a small interrogation room that had two chairs with a lie detector machine sitting on a table between them. Then the questions started. Some were extremely personal questions which in knowing elements from my medical files about being HIV positive were structured to discover if I was gay. The important catch phrase used was if one was not comfortable being gay and open about it “You could be manipulated and coerced into revealing government secrets”. Big deal I was gay and most knew about it. So how did this apply to me but that didn’t matter. To the military it became a witch hunt, wanting to know friends and other military members who were gay. Life for me changed. A possible promotion suddenly vanished as my security clearance was removed. A series of officers informed me that I had been reassigned to custodial duties in the drill hall (that meant sweeping floors) and ordered not to visit the ship I belonged to at the time. To not talk to other members about what was going on? Confusion- manipulation and stigmatization. My head spun at what was going on. In Nov. 1986 finally a medical officer tells me all this is happening because I’m under investigation for being gay. Simply going out to a gay bar downtown became a mystery novelists dream with military personal posted up high taking photographs of people entering and leaving the gay bar. You wondered some days if you were being followed. Thrown into this mix I was also struggling with being HIV positive. My life as I knew it was destroyed by the military actions.

Towards the end of my career they tried to pressure me to sign an “Administration release” form to absolve them of responsibility. This was the way most gay people were terminated but I refused and managed a medical release but with no benefits. My files were filled with misinformation, mistakes made by key people in charge which led to my Human Rights Challenge. It meant the soft spoken guy was no more – thrust into the media and spot light I became the “gay sailor” because I felt I had no other choice but to stand up and make the military accountable. In the beginning of the court hearings the focus was on the “Gay issue” and then the medical. Throughout the process I lost my car, my house my job ... friends and social life. In the end I won The Human Rights Case in 1994 because of discrimination based on a disability and was awarded compensation for lost wages but no medical coverage or pension – the fact I was gay and how I was treated became a silent back story and at no time did anyone in the Military/Government ever apologize for the war of attrition waged against me, of destroying what could have been. This should never have happened.

It’s been just over 25 years since the military released me and I can still get emotional and angry over how things turned out. I start thinking back over what happened and I get animated and frustrated. I should have been able to move on to let it go but in the end there was no real closure. Yes I received a small compensation for lost wages but that vanished in seconds to pay off bills, taxes and lawyers. There was no apology or acknowledgement of what the government did. What they tried to do essentially in my case is hope that I would crawl off somewhere and die. I didn’t and I’m still waiting for that apology.

As one who has a well-documented case through the Human Rights Commission and in the public media that clearly establishes how being gay in the military had consequences in that era. That discrimination and stigma propagated by the military was a reality. It is about time that an official government apology be issued for these injustices. I fully support the Motions M-517 and M-521.

Sincerely,

Simon Thwaites

May 25, 2015

(902) 800-2530

hedgehog_bear@hotmail.com

http://p-sec.org/we-demand-an-apology/