- With all the debate about the recent licensing agreement between Spotify and the Joe Rogan Experience, I figured I would post my thoughts on the matter.
- My credentials:
- Co-Inventor of Podcasting
- Co-Host of the No Agenda Show 12 years, 1245 episodes and still going strong
- Much of the discussion is about technical aspects, definition of the term 'podcasting' or what is a podcast. A lot of it is about value, or its measurement in money. Almost absent from the debate are the listeners.
- Podcasting's actual origins are in the desire to create a better multi-media experience in the days of 'always-on' cable modems with extremely low bandwidth (by today's standards). RSS facilitated this with a subscription mechanism that automated and artificially compressed the 'click-wait-wait-wait some more-play' experience of early low bandwidth consumer internet infrastructure.
- RSS was perfectly suited for this purpose (with the addition of the 'enclosure' element), because it is 'plumbing'. Invisible to the user, it quietly has connected so much of the underpinnings of today's data flows that it will never 'die'. It is a free and open way to distribute content to anyone, anywhere. At its core, all you need is a place to store and serve your files and a text editor to make your feed. It is part of the stack of the web. Most will never see how integrated it truly is.
- Most of all, the Listeners don't care, nor should they.
- JRE listeners are also viewers. Many watch him on YouTube and have built quite a community in the comments, despite its inefficiencies. The show is perfectly suited for long commutes or time when you can multi-task while privately listening. The 'podcast' is great for this. But many also use the YouTube app, which continues to play even when the lock screen is enabled.
- To these millions of people, the 'podcast' represents a tribe. They don't care if you listen in Overcast, watch it on YouTube or click the player on a web page. You are a part of the Joe Rogan Experience. Joe's tribe.
- Tribal Media represents what's really happening. With the freedom to create and distribute, without the need for expensive transmitters or other infrastructure, anyone with a domain name can claim their spot.
- And that's exactly what Joe did, and he did it by helping friendly tribes, his friends, comedians, actors and interesting people who each came with their own tribes. The growth was obvious and the tribe supported itself.
- The support came in many ways: making clips and posting them on social media, thereby exposing potential tribe members to join. The tribe recommends guests, they buy the guests' books and listens to the guests' podcasts, they provide valuable input and feedback. And they apparently are fine with listening to eight minutes of ads read by Joe for products I fully expect they also buy or consume. This is all to support the Tribe. And the Tribe meetings are compelling, usually 3 hours of deep thinking, humor and freedom of thought. Nothing is wrong, all is welcomed. And in many States, you can even light up and play along at home. I know I do.
- The term 'Podcast' has become a generic term for a Tribe. How or when you participate is unimportant, and you will do whatever it takes to keep up with Tribe. Different app? Spotify? Fine. Just wanna be at the meeting.
- JRE is so valuable to the Tribe that they will gladly follow to another app 1 inch from the one they used to use, and if that requires a registration, so be it. And they are very happy with the value Joe is receiving for his decade of hard work at growing the Tribe. Look at all the Value they get!
- Does this mean that no one will ever visit the other tribes where they are members of? Of course not. Most of those other tribes meet "over there". In that app. Frictionless.
- Now, will the JRE Tribe still have a functional way to interact as they did in the YouTube comments? That I don't know. I didn't hear anything about it in the announcement. Will the Spotify app do a good job of reminding members of a new episode? Presumably. Spotify has their own value proposition and will make design and interaction feature decisions that may or may not be to the liking of the Tribe. The only possible downside in my opinion. Many tribe members have influenced design decisions that have helped make podcast apps like Overcast extremely valuable. Spotify may not be open to that.
- Ultimately, I think a lot of the discussion about the JRE move is really about money. That's why so many spiral into the 'monetization trap'. He wasn't doing anything special other than basic podtrac reporting and cashing YouTube checks. None of that matters. Joe's got tribe. He gets exactly what he deserves. You want Joe money? Be Joe Rogan.
- An excellent example of Tribal support is Alex Jones. He was actually de-platformed by Apple (!) in a coordinated effort with many other podcast apps to follow suit. Where were the podcast freedom fighters then? Yelling for free and open distribution? It doesn't matter, because Jones' Tribe supports itself. Iodine and Vitality pills may not be your thing, but it sure keeps them going. In more ways than one.
- When my co-host John C Dvorak and I identified the tribal nature of new media audiences over a decade ago, we expanded the concept by recognizing all of them as Producers. That is not a misnomer. Tens of thousands are actively working at any time on the actual production of the product.
- We may not know much about Nuclear energy, but we have at least five producers with merit and standing in the field. State legislative issue? We have producers who work there. We have doctors, pilots, professors, students, financial experts, artists, musicians. The list is endless and everyone is welcome to contribute.
- These tribal interactions gave birth to the Value for Value media model. The premise is simple. After listening to us for 3 hours, what value did you get from it? Can you make something more valuable to the Tribe, by adding some value?
- This is how the entire production is run, from content aggregation to hosting infrastructure, album artwork (new every episode) a 24/7 'troll-room' with a live stream when we record. Transcripts, End of Show mixes. Our own social network that is federated with the other tribes of mastodon. Merchandise, even an animated series. All of it set up and maintained by the Tribe. In fact, we take a show off about twice a year. Members of the Tribe produce a special 'best of' to run so we can enjoy our rest.
- If you can't contribute in those ways, can you put a number on the value, like a date at the movies with drinks and popcorn would be about $50? No set number or frequency, just whatever you feel is fair value
- Turns out, people value things wildly differently than you would expect. For some, $5 a month is fair value. For another, the same product comes out to $500
- We don't have algos reminding people to listen, or nudging them to try us out. We have a Newsletter. It goes out to the Tribe. The tribe is reminded of the support needed to maintain its existence, which includes new recruits and finances. Producers who support financially are thanked on the show with the amount they contributed. Transparent and entertaining in numerically motivated donation amounts. These are our Executive Producers for that episode.
- I know that we aren't the only podcast to witness this enormous shift from the passive television and radio audiences of the previous millennium. But very few seem to be focused on it.
- It works. For 12 years the model has supported and successfully grown our Tribe, and kept two families housed and fed. But above all we have each other. The Network of producers meet regularly around the world at meetups, support each other in business startups, advice, insight and compassion.
- What I just described here is the equivalent of a $50 million media company, which by design cannot be transferred to new ownership. It will also outlast both of its Chiefs.
- Dvorak and I, we get exactly what we deserve. Value for Value.
- In March of this year, our Tribe met with the JRE Tribe. We smoked a peace-pipe; version 2.0. Many of our tribes are now also members of the other. We welcome them as they have welcomed us. They all get it. We all grow together. Who knows, we may even find new tribes at Spotify.
- Everyone wants to be successful. Money is a good way to measure success. Value is better. Try focusing on your Tribe instead of platforms, monetization, stats, tracking, engagement, feeds, ads, insertions, recommendations, algorithms and such.
- We all get exactly what we deserve.
