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		<title>Podcasting 2.0 June 19th 2026 Episode 264 - &quot;Podcast Plebicide&quot;</title>
		<ownerName>Adam Curry</ownerName>
		<ownerEmail>adam@curry.com</ownerEmail>
		<dateModified>Fri, 19 Jun 2026 19:30:05 GMT</dateModified>
		<expansionState>3,8,18,27</expansionState>
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		<outline text="&lt;b&gt;Podcasting 2.0 June 19th 2026 Episode 264 - &quot;Podcast Plebicide&quot;&lt;/b&gt;
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			<outline text="The week podcasting argued about what a &amp;quot;play&amp;quot; even is — and whether better measurement fixes the money."/>
			<outline text="Board meeting: AMP&amp;#x27;s 30-second play (and its quiet walkback), the spam / AI-slop flood, and podping going weeks at 100%."/>
			<outline text="&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;We are the only boardroom that will never sign a memorandum of understanding&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt;"/>
			<outline text="&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;I&amp;#x27;m Adam Curry in the Heart of the Texas Hill Country&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt;"/>
			<outline text="&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;And in Alabama, the man who always guve you 5 nines of uptime — &amp;lt;i&amp;gt;Say hello to my Friend on the other End — Dave Jones!&amp;lt;/i&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt;"/>
			<outline text="Download the mp3" type="link" url="https://op3.dev/e/mp3s.nashownotes.com/PC20-264-2026-06-19-Final.mp3"/>
			<outline text="Podcast Feed" type="link" url="http://mp3s.nashownotes.com/pc20rss.xml"/>
			<outline text="PodcastIndex.org" type="link" url="http://PodcastIndex.org"/>
			<outline text="Preservepodcasting.com" type="link" url="http://Preservepodcasting.com"/>
			<outline text="Check out the podcasting 2.0 apps and services newpodcastapps.com" type="link" url="http://newpodcastapps.com"/>
			<outline text="&amp;lt;i&amp;gt;Support us with your Time Talent and Treasure&amp;lt;/i&amp;gt;" type="link" url="https://www.paypal.com/donate/?token=m0z6N1K047lEsGvPDr3KMumKYHlUHRAdwPNY645UB0LR9fGf_OtpVByzHId7TEFYo9nXNS5aF33Zdjn9&amp;fromUL=true&amp;country.x=US&amp;locale.x=en_US"/>
			</outline>
		<outline text="Positioning">
			<outline text="The Podcast Index is here to preserve, protect and extend the open, independent podcasting ecosystem."/>
			<outline text="We do this by enabling developers to have access to an open, categorized index that will always be available for free, for any use."/>
			<outline text="Try a new podcast app today and see how much better the experience can be." type="link" url="http://newpodcastapps.com/"/>
			<outline text="What is &amp;lt;b&amp;gt;Value4Value&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt;? - Read all about it at Value4Value.info" type="link" url="https://Value4Value.info"/>
			<outline text="V4V Stats" type="link" url="https://stats.podcastindex.org/v4v"/>
			</outline>
		<outline text="&lt;b&gt;ShowNotes&lt;/b&gt;" _expanded="true">
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			<outline text="Justin Jackson's post: We Have A Communication Problem" type="link" url="https://justinjackson.ca/communication"/>
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			<outline text="00 - PODPING.ALPHA STABLE + INDEX / PV-ALPHA HYGIENE" _expanded="true">
				<outline text="&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;Milestone:&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt; Dave — &amp;quot;I think we can safely say that podping.alpha is stable now. It&amp;#x27;s been many weeks of 100% uptime.&amp;quot; Lead the boardroom with the win."/>
				<outline text="&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;PV-alpha 500s:&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt; @mitch + Dave debugging the &amp;quot;get a list of feeds that have updates over the last X&amp;quot; endpoint throwing 500s; @mitch adding a delay between paginated requests in case it&amp;#x27;s a too-many-requests block."/>
				<outline text="&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;Feed de-listing puzzle:&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt; Dave to @ChadF — a feed marked dead with no spam flag; aggregators de-listing it for some other reason. Open question."/>
				<outline text="&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;Iroh 1.0&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt; — Dave flagged it: &amp;quot;Dialing keys instead of IP addresses.&amp;quot; p2p networking, boardroom catnip — worth a riff with Dave."/>
				<outline text="Discussion: also surface your own snags — Sovereignfeeds webhook &amp;quot;Unknown Error sending to Server&amp;quot; and ladder.podcastindex.org appearing down (to @StevenB / Dave)."/>
				<outline text="Iroh 1.0 Release" type="link" url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8GtyclhfvE"/>
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			<outline text="01 - SPAM + AI-SLOP — TOWARD A &amp;quot;SPAM-COP SCORE&amp;quot;" _expanded="true">
				<outline text="&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;Your spam API got the PNWR shoutout:&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt; both James Cridland and Sam Sethi credited Dave Jones / the Podcast Index spam API on this week&amp;#x27;s show — TrueFans auto-removes reported feeds via it. Take the lap."/>
				<outline text="&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;Spotify under fire:&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt; Senator Maggie Hassan&amp;#x27;s investigation (follow-up to CNN&amp;#x27;s drug-dealing-podcasts story) — Spotify removed 3,500 accounts in 2025, reported ZERO to law enforcement, doesn&amp;#x27;t track link clicks; some shows up 4 years. Also iHeart, Amazon Music, Acast/Podchaser — NOT Apple. Pointed at JellyPod (AI tool)."/>
				<outline text="&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;James&amp;#x27; pitch (your lane):&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt; industry-funded &amp;quot;spam-cop score&amp;quot; — like a spam-cop score for email — that FLAGS obvious spam, leaving each directory to decide. The Index is already best-placed to do it."/>
				<outline text="&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;Fastcast vs Inception Point:&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt; Fastcast floods directories with hundreds of AI-voiced local &amp;quot;[City] News Now&amp;quot; shows but LABELS them AI; Inception Point AI decided sub-3-min shows won&amp;#x27;t disclose AI at all (&amp;quot;Siri doesn&amp;#x27;t say it&amp;#x27;s AI&amp;quot;). Apple requires disclosure but doesn&amp;#x27;t enforce."/>
				<outline text="&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;Namespace hook:&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt; they noted there&amp;#x27;s still NO approved AI tag — it&amp;#x27;s just a use of &amp;lt;podcast:txt&amp;gt;. Boardroom question: should there be?"/>
				<outline text="Capwing: ~60% of TikTok videos served to new accounts are AI slop — James calls it a &amp;quot;siren call&amp;quot; for podcasting."/>
				<outline text="PNWR (Jun 19) — measurement, spam and money" type="link" url="https://weekly.podnews.net/"/>
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			<outline text="02 - MEASUREMENT: AMP&amp;#x27;S 30-SECOND &amp;quot;PLAY,&amp;quot; ROUND TWO" _expanded="true">
				<outline text="AMP defined a &amp;quot;play&amp;quot; as 30 seconds; Spotify immediately adopted it. You and Dave already called 30s &amp;quot;bullshit&amp;quot; last week — push total listen time + percent-completed as the real metrics."/>
				<outline text="&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;The walkback:&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt; AMP&amp;#x27;s original press release said &amp;quot;30 seconds of content played… once per user per session&amp;quot; — and quietly DELETED &amp;quot;once per user per session,&amp;quot; leaving a woolier definition. James flagged it on-page with the HTML5 del tag."/>
				<outline text="&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;YouTube is in AMP:&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt; Google confirmed YouTube &amp;quot;has been participating in the AMP-led conversations&amp;quot; — implies YouTube uses a 30s play. Apple&amp;#x27;s stance still unknown."/>
				<outline text="RSS.com test (Alberto): moving the DOWNLOAD threshold 60s to 30s changed totals by ~1% — negligible. So 30s for both plays and downloads is just simpler."/>
				<outline text="&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;The HLS gotcha:&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt; playing 10s of an HLS video podcast still downloads ~60-72s, so server logs can&amp;#x27;t tell real play — only player-side instrumentation (Spotify, future Apple) can. James: it&amp;#x27;s all too &amp;quot;cloak and dagger.&amp;quot;"/>
				<outline text="&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;Watch July:&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt; AMP&amp;#x27;s implementation doc is due July and the group is light on technical people — needs to be real technical work, &amp;quot;not a sales press release.&amp;quot;"/>
				<outline text="Understanding podcast stats (PodNews)" type="link" url="https://podnews.net/articles"/>
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			<outline text="03 - BEYOND CPM — INDIE + MISSION-DRIVEN ECONOMICS" _expanded="true">
				<outline text="&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;Losh Moodaley (&amp;quot;Beyond CPM&amp;quot;):&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt; the indie middle class (5k-25k downloads = only ~1-1.5% of all podcasts) can&amp;#x27;t survive on CPMs. Roadmap: audience-as-economy, sell exclusivity not inventory, scale outcomes not audiences, &amp;quot;owners of trust, not renters of attention.&amp;quot;"/>
				<outline text="Pure V4V-adjacent framing — Sam Sethi tied it straight to TrueFans activity-based value (a share or comment is value, not just dollars) and &amp;quot;creator portals.&amp;quot; Easy on-ramp to your worldview."/>
				<outline text="&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;Vox Topica (Richard Fall):&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt; full-stack agency for nonprofits/mission-driven orgs — speaks engagement/reach/&amp;quot;depth of message,&amp;quot; not downloads. Nonprofits resist AI voices (authenticity) but use AI for scripts/cleanup/show notes; now recommends video to ALL clients."/>
				<outline text="Beyond CPM: Surviving the New Measurement Era (PodNews Daily)" type="link" url="https://podnews.net/"/>
				<outline text="Vox Topica" type="link" url="https://voxtopica.com"/>
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			<outline text="04 - NUMBERS + MONEY MOVES">
				<outline text="&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;812 million podcast hours / week&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt; (Edison/SSRS, +5%, and +386% over 10 years). James wants THIS to be the headline figure instead of weekly-listener count — because listener count will plateau soon. Pairs with the move to listen-time + plays."/>
				<outline text="&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;Fox buys Roku for $22B&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt; (Lachlan Murdoch). Fox already owns Tubi, Red Seat Ventures and Supercast; Roku now entering Australia. Expect more Fox One / Tubi on the box — and more video-podcast deals."/>
				<outline text="&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;Canada:&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt; podcast reach up to 46%/month (49% English) — biggest single-year jump (Signal Hill / Triton). YouTube most-used; Apple the #1 RSS app (49% of new-episode downloads)."/>
				<outline text="YouGov dumping podcast research (UK/US genre data). @js&amp;#x27;s adoption datapoint for the namespace talk: only 0.529% of new May episodes carried an alternateEnclosure."/>
				<outline text="@js Livewire / OP3 data" type="link" url="https://livewire.io/podcast-hosts-by-episode-share/"/>
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			<outline text="05 - AI BUBBLE / EDGE COMPUTE — DATACENTER WATER">
				<outline text="&amp;lt;b&amp;gt;Dave&amp;#x27;s thread:&amp;lt;/b&amp;gt; Amazon used 2.5B gallons of water for datacenters in 2025, claims &amp;quot;75% of the way&amp;quot; to water-positive by 2030 — set against EPA&amp;#x27;s 9B gallons/day for US landscape irrigation (3.3T/year). The scale-of-the-bet tell."/>
				<outline text="Carries the EP263 thesis forward: the AI capex boom and the podcast-measurement mess are the same disease — inflated numbers nobody wants corrected; real metrics (and local/edge compute) threaten both."/>
				<outline text="Light touch this week unless you want to re-run Jensen / local-inference — no fresh clips queued."/>
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			<outline text="06 - CROSS-STORY: COMMODORE FLIP-PHONE" _expanded="true">
				<outline text="Commodore (retro-computing brand relaunch) is shipping a Commodore-branded flip phone. Cross-routed to PC20 + NA + WGTDT. PC20 angle: brand revival, dumbphone-as-product, the indie/maker ecosystem you and Dave love."/>
				<outline text="(Heads-up: the page 403s a plain fetch — confirm content browser-side before air.)"/>
				<outline text="Commodore flip-phone" type="link" url="https://commodore.net/callback/"/>
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			<outline text="07 - QUIPS / TRANSITIONS">
				<outline text="@js: only 0.529% of new May episodes had an alternateEnclosure — &amp;quot;adoption&amp;quot; in one number."/>
				<outline text="@js, on AI eating news: USA Today now builds &amp;quot;automated shell files&amp;quot; for breaking stories within ~4 hours to beat AI Overviews."/>
				<outline text="Heads-up from @csb: you forgot to read last week&amp;#x27;s Bitcoin Gram — he says he&amp;#x27;s withholding today&amp;#x27;s donation until you read it. (Boardroom karma.)"/>
				<outline text="Dave&amp;#x27;s teased topic: &amp;quot;focused attention&amp;quot; — why in-person beats online (off @mijustin). Possible cold open."/>
				<outline text="PNWR&amp;#x27;s new segment is literally &amp;quot;Spam of the Week.&amp;quot; Even the spam has a slot now."/>
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